Curse

chicks boy · Aug 09, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

I dont understand the Mo/Me Boon Prot build, is there even an energy management?

Why dont people use Divine Spirit Spammer? a Mo/Ele? With Glyph of renewal + Divine Spirit? Thats like GODLY!! All you're skills have -5 energy so all you're healings will be like, what? 1 energy XD I dont see a lot of people use that build. Tell me why? Any1?

chicks boy · Aug 09, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Also, Divine spirit is like an enchantment and it only lasts 14 seconds with 16 Attribute Divine Favor. And its cooldown is 60 seconds. Thats why you have to be a Mo/Ele with Elite Glpyh Of Renewal. So with Totem axe +20% enchant longer and with blessed aura +35% enchant longer, divine spirit will last like 24 seconds!! and with Glyph of renewal, damn dude thats like GOD!!!!

JR · Aug 09, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Because if either Glyph or Divine Spirit are interrupted or disabled, you are boned. If they simply sit a mesmer on you draining Divine Spirit every time you put it up, you are boned.

In PvE it can be viable in areas with little to no enchant stripping, in PvP good teams will mess you up.

Evilsod · Aug 09, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Because if either Glyph or Divine Spirit are interrupted or disabled, you are boned. If they simply sit a mesmer on you draining Divine Spirit every time you put it up, you are boned.

In PvE it can be viable in areas with little to no enchant stripping, in PvP good teams will mess you up.

The same can be said if they put a good interrupter on you who constantly interrupts Mantra of Recall/Energy Drain though. Losing your main energy management is just as bad, inspired hex can only do so much.

Yanman.be · Aug 09, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Divine Spirit is just easier to shut down...Signet of Humility on GoR is more effective than on MoR

Sab · Aug 09, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

A Boon Prot has powerful fast-casting heals, condition removal, hex removal, anti-spike and is very resiliant to hexes/conditions and enchantment removal. A Divine Spirit healer simply doesn't offer as much utility.

Effigy · Aug 09, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Not to mention that Divine/Renewal requires you to keep recasting 2 spells every ~15 seconds, which you don't always have the luxury of doing in PvP, where your team mates are relying on your full attention to stay alive. It's much more manageable to cast 1 spell every 20-25 seconds for your energy management, not to mention more versatile because precise timing is not a requirement like it is with Divine/Renewal.

Recasting Edrain or MoR as often as possible is a good idea, but it won't seriously hurt you to wait a couple extra seconds to recast if you're trying to toss out some emergency heal/prot. Edrain is a front-load energy management skill, meaning you can cast normal most of the time and use Edrain as needed to replenish. MoR and D/R are both back-load emanagement since the energy gain is deferred until the duration runs out (for the former) or spells are cast (for the latter). However, the difference between the two lies in the fact that actions during the interim of MoR do not affect it's effectiveness, while the opposite is true of D/R. So if you wait a few extra seconds before recasting MoR, you'll get the same return from it albiet slightly deferred. With D/R, every spell you cast while not under its effect is lost potential for energy management; this means you cannot wait to recast without serious losses to your efficiency.

Versatility for the win, imo. I like Edrain the best, although MoR is equally good. D/R is too rigid for my taste.

chicks boy · Aug 09, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

Not to mention that Divine/Renewal requires you to keep recasting 2 spells every ~15 seconds, which you don't always have the luxury of doing in PvP, where your team mates are relying on your full attention to stay alive. It's much more manageable to cast 1 spell every 20-25 seconds for your energy management, not to mention more versatile before precise timing in not a requirement like it is with Divine/Renewal. Recasting Edrain or MoR as often as possible is a good idea, but it won't seriously hurt you to wait a couple extra seconds to recast if you're trying to toss out some emergency heal/prot.

A Divine Spirit monk doesnt always HAVE to be healing! It can be Protect or Smite too. But healing is better dude because you can spam Orison, Breeze, Dwayna and you're energy is still 40 over 52!

And no, you RECAST 2 spells EVERY 24 -27 seconds if you have a damn weapon with +20% enchants longer and with blessed aura that keeps you're shit maintained dude.

So tell me, What is the energy management for Boon Prot? Mantra of Recall rite? Wtf man.

]SK[ · Aug 09, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Boon/Prot can react quicker to spike damage.

Effigy · Aug 09, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Wow...just wow. Nice observation that I live in Illinois. Good luck "beating my ass," since you've now narrowed me down to 1 out of 12.7 million people. The fact that you would even make such a ridiculous claim, for disagreeing with you on an internet forum of all things, speaks volumes about your age and maturity.

As to your half-baked reply, I never claimed a Divine/Renewal monk had to be healing. However, this is the most common usage to my knowledge, so that's what I mentioned. Frankly, the choice between healing, prot, or even smite has nothing to do with energy management, which is the topic at hand.

Secondly, you asked why people don't use this combo much, and I told you. It may fly in PvE to be maintaining Blessed Aura and recasting Divine/Renewal all the time, but this does not work very well in PvP for reasons that have already been explained by myself and others. If you don't want answers, don't ask the question. If you want to use the build, be my guest. Just don't expect everyone else to assume you're right by default, as you seem to do.

EDIT: In any event, maintaining Blessed Aura is going to reduce your energy regen anyway, which makes this combo even less effective.

JR · Aug 09, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

The same can be said if they put a good interrupter on you who constantly interrupts Mantra of Recall/Energy Drain though. Losing your main energy management is just as bad, inspired hex can only do so much.

True enough, but they don't even have to interrupt Glyph or Divine Spirit (and Divine Spirit is surprisingly easy to hit, considering they always follow with it straight after Glyph). As soon as they see it go up, they just have to strip it off you sometime after and you are gimped. It is literally just far too easy to mess with a DS/GoR monk. With Edrain they have to actually camp you with interrupts waiting to hit it, which ties them down. And you can alwas cast it whilst they are mid cast of something else, or while they are kiting or otherwise engaged.

SnipiousMax · Aug 09, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

Versatility for the win, imo. I like Edrain the best, although MoR is equally good. D/R is too rigid for my taste.

Agreed.

Truth be told, if you are being powered by either and still run out of energy (short of being denied of course) then you've got other things to work on.

Carth` · Aug 10, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

The trouble is that divine spirit just isn't very good energy management. When you read the description it seems like it is, but when you try it, it isn't.

I tried it a few times, and I found that the 10 energy cost means you don't really save that much energy. If it was a signet, then it would be nice. I also found that I felt obliged to be healing, even when people didn't need it, just because my divine spirit was running out. It's too situational. If you aren't casting a lot of spells, you've wasted 10 energy.

You can lessen these downsides with Blessed Aura and Glyph of Renewal, but that is costing you 1 energy regeneration, and 5 energy for the glyph. So now you are spending 15 energy every 15 seconds, have only 3 pips of regen, and then you find that nobody needs healing much in the next 15 seconds.

Like I said, I tried a Divine Spirit build, and it cost me more energy than if I'd brought no energy management. If your skill bar is full of 5 energy heals anyway, you are better without it.

Mark of Recall is nice because it is a dependable increase of energy every 20 seconds. If it is stripped, you get the energy back as well. Also complements Contemplation of Purity well.

xiao1985 · Aug 10, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

i played both builds and i have to say DS spammer is easier to shut down...

however, DS is very effective in dealing with pressure build and in pve... whereas it's horrible to counter spikes....

whereas boon prot anti spikes very very well...

my 2c

easyg · Aug 11, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

One big knock on Boon Protect, which I actually do use in PvE and occasionally in PvE, is the -1 energy regen for maintaining Divine Boon. Yes, Mantra of Recall recharges every 20 secs, which can net you +10 energy or more depending on your points in Inspiration Magic (remember it costs 10 to cast).

But over that 20 seconds, the -1 energy has cost you 20 points of energy, total wiping out the gain from Mantra. The Boon Protect build is very useful in PvE, particularly cause of RoF. The 1/4 sec activation time is an absolute life saver.

To be honest, though, -1 energy regen is pretty bad. In terms of the numbers, I don't see how there's any way it can be argued that Boon Protect is a good build in terms of energy management. You are sacrificing energy for quick and powerful anti-spike. That's a good trade off for PvE.

JR · Aug 11, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by easyg

In terms of the numbers, I don't see how there's any way it can be argued that Boon Protect is a good build in terms of energy management. You are sacrificing energy for quick and powerful anti-spike. That's a good trade off for PvE.

Because a Booned Reversal is a very efficient heal, regardless of the -1 regen or Mantra of Recall. As you said; those two cancel each other out to an extent, leaving you with a monk that has very efficient heals.

sno · Aug 11, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by easyg

But over that 20 seconds, the -1 energy has cost you 20 points of energy, total wiping out the gain from Mantra. The Boon Protect build is very useful in PvE, particularly cause of RoF. The 1/4 sec activation time is an absolute life saver.

Um, where did you go to school? Each pip of energy regen is 1/3 energy per second. Over 20 seconds, you gain ~7 energy per pip. With 3 pips, you regain 20 energy in 20 seconds, plus the +13 net energy from MoR (at 10 insp.)

So, with boon and MoR = +33 energy per 20 seconds

With no boon or MoR = +27 energy (roughly) per 20 seconds

Using MoR for energy management clearly makes up for more than just the -1 pip you get from using boon.

It's a silly argument all together though, as theres nothing that says if you use boon you need elite energy management, and theres nothing that says that if you don't have boon, you can't use elite energy management.

easyg · Aug 11, 2006, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

It's a silly argument all together though, as theres nothing that says if you use boon you need elite energy management, and theres nothing that says that if you don't have boon, you can't use elite energy management.

Lol, that's exactly my point. You can carry Mantra of Recall on any Mo/Me build. If you don't have Divine Boon, you are going to regenerate more energy over time than if you do have it on regardless of whether you have MoR or not.

My point is that you can't discuss the Boon Protect energy management without mentioning the significant fact that Divine Boon is -1 to maintain. But nobody mentioned it until I did just now. And all things being equal, if you have Divine Protection on, you are trading energy for healing. And over time, this translates to quite a bit of energy.

Bloodied Blade · Aug 11, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

While it does cost you more energy over time (I'm assuming that you're referring to the -2e per cast), boon also adds an amount of healing equivalent to or greater than an Orison of Healing at 12 healing prayers. That's like saving 5e per cast because that's a heal or extra skill you didn't have to use. You spend 7e to use Reversal of Fortune, get a good heal from boon, and still get the prot effect from RoF.

Boon may be -1e to maintain, but that's only -1/3e per second, and you still have 3 pips of regen, amounting to +1e per second. The only difference between 4 pips + mantra and 3 pips + mantra and boon (in regards to energy) is that you get ~7 extra energy in 20 seconds. What we get in return for that trade is immense versatility and adaptability.